Title: Rebel Finance School 2026 — Week 5 Monday Transcript
Session: How to Talk About Money Without Stress, Shame, or Arguments | RFS 2026 Week 5
YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch/RSV3w8JbFRA
Course: Rebel Finance School 2026
Creators: Alan Donegan and Katie Donegan, Rebel Donegans
Canonical page: https://rebeldonegans.com/finance/rfs/course-notes/week-5/
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Website: https://rebeldonegans.com/
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Disclaimer:
This is financial education, not financial advice. Rebel Donegans are not regulated financial advisers. You are responsible for your own financial decisions.


00:00:00.240 Two, one. We are live on YouTube. Hello
00:00:04.880 and welcome to week five of the Rebel
00:00:08.000 Finance School.
00:00:08.800 >> I can't believe we got this far, Ellen.
00:00:10.240 >> I can't believe we got this far. It's
00:00:11.759 halfway through. You've only got one
00:00:13.840 week to wait until the sexy stuff
00:00:16.160 starts.
00:00:16.960 >> What are you going to do for the sexy
00:00:18.240 stuff? It's going to be some kind of
00:00:19.439 special outfit. I've heard mention of
00:00:22.560 leather trousers.
00:00:23.840 >> Uh, was that fireman69 on YouTube? Yeah,
00:00:26.720 someone should have a word with him. Uh,
00:00:28.880 thank you everyone for tuning in. We are
00:00:30.640 super excited to have you here for this
00:00:32.880 week. It's going to be a lot of fun.
00:00:35.440 It's going to be a lot of fun. Right.
00:00:38.239 Shall we get straight into this case?
00:00:39.680 >> I think we should. So, this week is all
00:00:42.800 about how to communicate with the people
00:00:45.120 that you care about about money. So, on
00:00:48.480 week three, we talked about how to stop
00:00:51.039 fighting yourself and how to get aligned
00:00:53.680 with where you want to go. And this
00:00:55.920 week, week five, is how to stop fighting
00:00:59.359 the people around you. And you may or
00:01:01.600 may not actually be fighting. And we
00:01:03.199 will uh come on to what we think about
00:01:05.119 that shortly.
00:01:06.080 >> Exactly. We introduced in week three
00:01:08.799 this inner alignment system all about
00:01:11.040 getting lined up so that you can make
00:01:12.960 progress on what you're doing with
00:01:14.880 direction, goals, and v values with
00:01:17.439 self, your identity and your beliefs.
00:01:20.000 and then execution with uh the
00:01:22.720 behaviors, with the environment, and
00:01:26.159 with your skills to make sure you're all
00:01:28.640 lined up. And this was the major
00:01:30.799 concept.
00:01:31.520 >> The idea being that your beliefs are
00:01:33.759 like the root of your money tree and
00:01:36.320 then your actions or your behaviors are
00:01:38.079 what you do to look after your tree and
00:01:40.400 then the results are what comes out of
00:01:42.720 that. And a lot of time we focus looking
00:01:44.479 at the results and saying, why don't I
00:01:46.079 have the results that I want? But it's
00:01:48.000 because the inner world is perhaps not
00:01:49.920 lined up with where you want to go.
00:01:52.799 >> But you do not live in a vacuum. Yes,
00:01:56.399 this is my favorite AI generated photo
00:01:58.880 ever. It is me in a vacuum cleaner. You
00:02:01.600 don't live in a vacuum. You don't build
00:02:03.920 your money life alone. There are people
00:02:06.079 around you, all around you. And you have
00:02:08.878 a money system. You have goals. You have
00:02:10.959 values. You have an identity. You have
00:02:12.400 beliefs, skills, behaviors, and
00:02:14.160 environment.
00:02:16.400 and so do they. So, it's really
00:02:19.120 interesting when you look at those two
00:02:22.239 coming together. So, why does this week
00:02:25.280 matter? Well, 45% of couples argue about
00:02:30.640 money.
00:02:31.120 >> Who got that stat? That feels very low.
00:02:33.120 >> Uh, and if you found it hard talking
00:02:35.599 about money, organizing your finances
00:02:37.360 with the people around you, you're not
00:02:38.959 weird. It's quite often the case. Uh 57%
00:02:43.840 of money say 50% 7% of money. 57% of
00:02:48.239 people say money is their biggest stress
00:02:51.680 right now which is crazy how much
00:02:54.000 pressure there is on the finances. But
00:02:56.480 stress tends to lead to avoidance in a
00:02:58.800 lot of cases. And just when we need to
00:03:00.640 communicate more to ask for help perhaps
00:03:02.959 or to talk about these things we kind of
00:03:05.840 a lot of us me included have the habit
00:03:07.519 of withdrawing and not communicating
00:03:09.599 whatsoever.
00:03:11.920 Uh we had a couple of friends who said
00:03:14.879 we never argue and they were very proud
00:03:17.920 of the fact they never argue and
00:03:19.519 actually it can be one of two reasons.
00:03:22.000 One is you are deeply aligned and
00:03:24.480 everything is working perfectly or two
00:03:26.879 is you avoid talking about the hard
00:03:29.599 stuff that actually matters.
00:03:31.280 >> Which which is more likely do you think
00:03:33.280 Alan?
00:03:33.680 >> It's normally number two. Let's be
00:03:35.200 perfectly honest. Uh it's normally
00:03:37.760 number two. It's very unlikely that
00:03:39.280 you're magically aligned on everything
00:03:41.360 that's important in your lives, isn't
00:03:42.879 it?
00:03:43.280 >> And the real cost of avoidance, stress,
00:03:46.480 and silence is damage in our
00:03:49.519 relationships with the people we love,
00:03:51.440 the people we care about, the family.
00:03:53.760 It's not just about couples. It's the
00:03:56.080 whole group. And that's the cost of it.
00:03:58.480 But money conversations go wrong when
00:04:01.519 two inner worlds collide with two
00:04:04.720 completely different systems. So you
00:04:07.360 have different goals, different values,
00:04:09.280 different fears, different stories, but
00:04:12.159 you're in the same boat trying to
00:04:15.920 supposedly go somewhere together. And
00:04:18.160 that's when you can get ripped apart by
00:04:20.000 this stuff. You've got two people in the
00:04:21.600 same boat, but you're rowing frantically
00:04:23.440 in opposite directions and wondering why
00:04:25.919 you're not getting anywhere
00:04:27.600 >> sometimes. Yeah, we'll come on to that.
00:04:29.680 Uh, two people does not always equal
00:04:32.880 twice as easy. Uh for any of you that
00:04:35.840 have ever had a relationship before, you
00:04:38.639 may realize that it's not always better.
00:04:41.040 It's not always easier when there's two
00:04:42.800 of you.
00:04:43.120 >> Because we hear this all the time, don't
00:04:44.400 we? That it's easier because there's two
00:04:46.800 of you working together. You know, when
00:04:48.320 it comes to sorting out your finances,
00:04:50.000 okay, well, two of you, double the
00:04:51.360 income, double the excitement, the
00:04:54.000 momentum. But that's not necessarily the
00:04:56.080 case if you're not aligned. Actually, it
00:04:58.880 can be to your detriment, right? Because
00:05:00.240 if you're on your own, you're just like,
00:05:01.120 "Well, this is where I'm going. Get
00:05:02.320 myself lined up. off I go. But it can be
00:05:05.040 magical. If you're aligned together, it
00:05:07.600 can be a superpower and you can pull
00:05:09.280 together and create something amazing.
00:05:11.600 But alignment doesn't just magically
00:05:13.759 happen. Like this is something you have
00:05:16.479 to work on.
00:05:17.600 >> Uh definitely doesn't it Alan?
00:05:19.759 >> It does not happen.
00:05:21.600 >> Did it magically happen with us? Uh
00:05:23.440 >> people think like oh Donigans you work
00:05:25.840 together must be rainbows and unicorns
00:05:28.160 in the Donigan household. We never argue
00:05:30.880 do we?
00:05:33.919 This is a bit awkward.
00:05:37.360 We've had so many problems trying to get
00:05:39.919 aligned, haven't we? It just doesn't
00:05:41.520 magically happen. And it's still isn't
00:05:44.080 necessarily always that we're completely
00:05:46.080 aligned on stuff. We've got pretty
00:05:47.919 aligned on the money stuff and when
00:05:49.360 we're going with that, but in terms of
00:05:51.280 things like life direction and what we
00:05:53.360 want to get out of life, we always have
00:05:56.000 to kind of work together to figure out
00:05:58.720 what do you want, what do I want.
00:06:00.160 Sometimes I don't say what I want.
00:06:01.759 Sometimes I don't know what I want. And
00:06:03.360 it's these things that it doesn't just
00:06:05.280 magically happen. You don't just
00:06:06.639 magically wake up and think, "Okay,
00:06:08.319 we're working together, rowing in the
00:06:10.000 same direction." And that uh can cause a
00:06:13.120 lot of friction and arguments.
00:06:14.720 >> And it does seem to happen at the
00:06:16.800 beginning of different projects when
00:06:18.240 we're doing something together. Let's do
00:06:19.680 this. But then we've got different
00:06:21.440 ideas, different directions, and that
00:06:23.840 causes a huge amount of pain. Uh but
00:06:26.720 when we get lined up on the biggest
00:06:28.720 projects, it's incredible what we can
00:06:30.639 achieve together.
00:06:32.000 >> Yes. When we are the Donigans working
00:06:34.240 together.
00:06:35.440 >> And what we wanted to say to you all is
00:06:38.639 this is not just about couples. There
00:06:41.759 are other people in your life.
00:06:45.440 Your people are all around you. your
00:06:48.880 partner, your family, your adult
00:06:50.639 children, your parents, your friends,
00:06:52.639 your housemates, your support network,
00:06:54.800 your community, future you. There's
00:06:57.280 people all around you that you can work
00:07:00.319 with
00:07:00.880 >> because you might want to have this
00:07:02.960 conversation with friends, with people
00:07:04.800 that are close to you, anyone that's
00:07:06.160 close to you that you want to talk with.
00:07:08.160 >> And here's the trap. It's a trap. Quite
00:07:11.840 often, people go, "I've learned
00:07:13.120 something really powerful on Rebel
00:07:15.039 Finance School." And then they ask the
00:07:17.199 question, how do I get them to do it?
00:07:21.280 How do I get them on board? How do I get
00:07:23.919 them to do it? And it's more like,
00:07:25.919 right, I've learned something new. You
00:07:27.919 need to change everything you're doing
00:07:29.280 and row the same direction I'm doing.
00:07:31.919 And what we wanted to say, external
00:07:33.680 alignment is not about controlling the
00:07:35.919 other person. It's about working
00:07:38.400 together, understanding the other
00:07:40.319 person, and rowing together to a
00:07:43.199 direction. And it's definitely not about
00:07:45.759 becoming the same person and merging
00:07:48.240 together.
00:07:49.120 >> This is the creepiest photo I've ever
00:07:51.280 seen in your life. I don't like it.
00:07:53.199 >> We're not trying to become the same
00:07:54.479 person. We're allowed to have different
00:07:56.000 visions, different goals, but if they're
00:07:58.240 completely opposite and we thought we
00:08:00.240 were aligned, then that's something that
00:08:02.240 you need to work on. But we're not
00:08:03.440 trying to become exactly the same
00:08:04.879 person. That would be really boring.
00:08:06.479 >> So tonight's plan is in three phases.
00:08:09.280 Phase one, understand the other person
00:08:12.160 next to you. If you're sat on the couch
00:08:13.840 next to them, you want to look into
00:08:15.520 their eyes and understand them.
00:08:18.639 I was waiting for Nina to turn left and
00:08:20.560 look at him.
00:08:21.120 >> I was waiting for you to turn left and
00:08:22.800 look at me. That's a bit creepy.
00:08:25.039 >> Step two, diagnose where your issues
00:08:28.240 are. Like where exactly are we
00:08:30.639 misaligned? And then step three, what
00:08:33.279 are we building together as a family, as
00:08:35.760 a group, as a team?
00:08:37.919 >> So today is how to have that
00:08:40.240 conversation. And then Thursday, I'm
00:08:42.000 really excited about because we're going
00:08:43.120 to guide you through one of the most
00:08:45.120 powerful habits that you can have when
00:08:46.959 it comes to being aligned with the
00:08:48.320 people around you, which is the monthly
00:08:50.080 finance meeting. Before we do that, a
00:08:52.399 message from our lawyers.
00:08:55.120 This is not financial advice. We're not
00:08:56.640 financial adviserss. We're not
00:08:57.680 regulated. We're not trained managers
00:08:58.959 counselors. We are sharing what has
00:09:00.240 worked for us. These ideas may or may
00:09:01.680 not continue to work for us or you. You
00:09:03.120 are 100% responsible for your financial
00:09:05.120 future, Peter. There are no guarantees
00:09:07.760 here except
00:09:09.519 >> the money back guarantee. If you do not
00:09:11.120 enjoy the course, you can have 100%
00:09:12.640 refund. Please speak to Derek Ninja who
00:09:14.560 will give you your refund.
00:09:15.600 >> If you paid for the course, something
00:09:16.720 has gone very wrong.
00:09:18.160 >> What I'd like to say is that when you do
00:09:19.680 that, I also hold my breath. And I think
00:09:21.839 that's probably not a good idea because
00:09:23.040 I've gone a little bit lightheaded. If
00:09:24.720 you're watching live on Zoom, please use
00:09:26.640 the Q&A function if you have questions
00:09:28.640 and some of our wonderful ninjas behind
00:09:30.240 the scenes will do their best to answer.
00:09:32.480 If you're on YouTube, please put it in
00:09:34.399 the comments. If you're on catchup,
00:09:36.640 please write it in the comments. Get it
00:09:38.480 in there. And if you're on YouTube,
00:09:40.560 please hit like and subscribe. It helps
00:09:42.160 us reach more people and gives us a nice
00:09:44.160 tingle of joy.
00:09:46.080 >> Everyone's up for the tingles. So, when
00:09:48.000 it comes to this map that we laid out
00:09:50.560 for you of this working towards
00:09:52.320 financial freedom, how does today's
00:09:54.560 content relate to the map, Alan?
00:09:56.480 >> Uh, it affects everything because if you
00:09:58.800 can't get lined up on spending, step one
00:10:01.440 is a mess. If you can't get lined up on
00:10:03.279 debt, step three is a mess. If you can't
00:10:05.279 get lined up on investing, how do you
00:10:07.200 decide like whose risk profile to follow
00:10:10.320 and what to do? Like this affects every
00:10:13.360 area of your financial life. And I
00:10:15.839 probably don't even need to say
00:10:16.959 financial life. This affects every area
00:10:19.200 of your life. And it's quite sad because
00:10:23.040 we get so many messages saying, "I just
00:10:26.240 can't talk about money with the people I
00:10:29.600 love.
00:10:31.120 Just can't talk about it." And they it's
00:10:32.880 like fill in the blank for the reason
00:10:34.720 because my partner's not interested.
00:10:37.040 Because my friends think I'm weird and
00:10:38.880 don't want to talk to me about this
00:10:40.160 stuff. Because anytime money comes up
00:10:42.959 with anyone that I want to talk to about
00:10:44.880 it, it goes weird and awkward and
00:10:47.440 horrible conversations that just end
00:10:49.279 badly. So no one you feel that way. I
00:10:52.399 think what it is is to talk about how we
00:10:54.720 did in week three with this bridging
00:10:56.320 belief and open up the possibility is
00:10:58.480 like I can't talk about money with the
00:11:00.160 people I love yet. So it's that's what
00:11:03.519 today is all about is bridging that
00:11:05.440 belief and giving you some tips as to
00:11:06.959 how you might start having that
00:11:08.320 conversation because maybe the problem
00:11:11.519 isn't the person.
00:11:14.079 Maybe the problem isn't the person.
00:11:16.800 Maybe the problem is where the
00:11:18.079 conversation starts and how the
00:11:20.480 conversation starts. So, we'd like to
00:11:22.640 share with you what not to do. Uh, how
00:11:25.680 do we know what not to do? Because we've
00:11:28.399 done most of it.
00:11:30.480 >> Here's how it goes.
00:11:31.680 >> You say, "We have to track our
00:11:33.760 spending."
00:11:34.720 >> They hear, "I'm going to monitor you and
00:11:37.600 control you."
00:11:38.959 >> You say, "We have to stop spending
00:11:41.120 altogether."
00:11:42.240 >> They hear, "I'm not allowed to have any
00:11:44.399 fun anymore in life."
00:11:46.160 You say we have to fill in the blank and
00:11:48.720 this could be a wide variety of things.
00:11:50.880 >> They hear I'm going to be controlled by
00:11:53.200 this.
00:11:54.320 >> You say the Donigans say we should dot
00:11:57.200 dot dot. And they hear the donigan's
00:11:59.440 opinion matters more than mine does.
00:12:02.000 Please don't do that to us. The person
00:12:04.079 near you matters.
00:12:06.560 This is the map. Every one of these
00:12:08.880 conversations generally starts at do you
00:12:12.000 know which level? If you all those
00:12:14.480 conversations we just talked about,
00:12:15.920 which level are they starting at? Put it
00:12:17.440 in the chat. You can put G for goal, V
00:12:19.839 for values, I for identity. Where does
00:12:22.079 it actually start? Tell us.
00:12:26.720 It's interesting, isn't it? Where are
00:12:28.320 all these conversations starting?
00:12:30.720 They're starting at behavior level. So,
00:12:32.959 that is the big problem when it comes to
00:12:34.880 these conversations. The first problem
00:12:36.639 being trying to start at behavior level.
00:12:40.079 Now, behavior is the output, isn't it?
00:12:41.680 It's the avoiding, it's the
00:12:42.959 overspending, it's hiding and not
00:12:44.639 wanting to talk about these things. But
00:12:46.800 it's the behavior comes from that system
00:12:48.880 that's underneath. And if the behavior
00:12:51.120 comes from the system, well then we said
00:12:54.880 on week three, don't start a behavior
00:12:57.440 level. It doesn't work for you. You
00:13:00.000 can't start with behavior and force
00:13:01.839 yourself if your identity, beliefs, and
00:13:03.680 goals don't match up. So then why do we
00:13:06.800 think that it would work for them? we
00:13:09.839 can just force them into filling a
00:13:11.680 spreadsheet out each month. Why do we
00:13:13.519 think that would work? And then of
00:13:15.440 course the second problem, okay, you're
00:13:17.600 trying to change a behavior level, but
00:13:19.040 it's not even your behavior. You're
00:13:20.399 trying to change someone else's
00:13:21.680 behavior. So you're screaming at them,
00:13:24.240 change your behavior from the outside,
00:13:27.360 completely have no clue how their money
00:13:29.920 system is working. To which we say, good
00:13:33.040 luck with that.
00:13:34.959 That is a recipe for disaster.
00:13:37.920 How do we know? because we've done this.
00:13:39.760 We've seen it. We've spoken to the
00:13:41.440 people who've done it. It is a huge
00:13:44.160 problem.
00:13:44.880 >> I may have done this, Alan.
00:13:46.560 >> Yes.
00:13:46.959 >> We call it the preachy phase. Katie's
00:13:48.880 preachy phase. I discovered this idea of
00:13:51.120 working towards financial independence,
00:13:53.440 financial freedom, meaning, wouldn't it
00:13:55.279 be cool if we didn't have to work for
00:13:56.800 money if we didn't want to? And I would
00:13:59.120 go to people and be like, do you know
00:14:01.440 how much that branch out is costing you?
00:14:03.920 And you could have put that into
00:14:05.040 investments. You could be buying your
00:14:06.240 freedom. What you're doing, you're
00:14:07.199 buying your brunch. what you play in
00:14:08.480 that and I got very judgy, very preachy.
00:14:11.040 I also call it the ram it down people's
00:14:12.800 throats phase just doesn't work and I
00:14:15.440 was going in and judging and telling
00:14:17.920 people to change their behavior without
00:14:19.920 even understanding what life they
00:14:21.680 wanted. There could have been a better
00:14:22.959 place to start that conversation.
00:14:24.720 >> I think there could. But you had good
00:14:26.079 intentions. You cared about the other
00:14:28.560 people and you want to help them. But
00:14:30.560 good intentions poorly delivered does
00:14:33.199 not create the result you want to
00:14:34.800 actually help people. And it perhaps uh
00:14:37.199 rather than bring us closer with our
00:14:39.040 friends and people I cared about perhaps
00:14:40.639 may have pushed us away a little bit.
00:14:42.320 >> Yeah. But we we've overcome that. We're
00:14:44.399 helping. Now what we really wanted to
00:14:47.040 say to you is no one cares about the
00:14:50.720 spreadsheet. Shock horror. No one cares
00:14:54.320 about the spreadsheet until they know
00:14:57.040 what life the spreadsheet's building.
00:14:59.360 There is a small asterisk that some
00:15:01.920 people do care about the spreadsheet
00:15:04.079 just for the spreadsheet but they are
00:15:05.680 very rare.
00:15:06.320 >> If Ellen came to me and said we need to
00:15:08.480 change our behavior and you need to
00:15:09.839 start by doing a spreadsheet I would be
00:15:11.680 well in. But I appreciate that I am in
00:15:13.680 the minority of people here.
00:15:16.160 >> Okay. So then what happens is people go
00:15:18.320 okay so got it. I need to start with the
00:15:20.560 vision. That's where I start. I'll start
00:15:22.639 with the vision. Then they ask the
00:15:24.480 question, how do I get my people on
00:15:26.800 board with my vision? They need to get
00:15:29.519 on board with my vision.
00:15:31.519 >> To which we say, well, why is it their
00:15:33.920 job to get on board with you? Could you
00:15:37.519 get on board with them? Do you even know
00:15:39.839 what their version vision of life is?
00:15:43.199 Like why should it be up to them? You're
00:15:45.040 like, they need to get on board with
00:15:46.240 what I'm doing. Why?
00:15:49.440 Uh track one is how do I get them to
00:15:52.800 change their behavior and trap two is
00:15:55.920 how do I get them to adopt my vision and
00:15:59.680 those are the biggest traps that is the
00:16:02.720 trap we all fall into. So let's look at
00:16:05.839 a better way to deal with this. There
00:16:08.639 has to be a better question and we think
00:16:10.720 it is how do I understand them? Seek
00:16:14.240 first to understand the other person
00:16:16.800 because they probably aren't being
00:16:18.240 difficult. They probably just have a
00:16:19.920 different money system, different goals
00:16:21.759 where they're running in different
00:16:22.959 directions, values, fears, stories. So,
00:16:25.920 our first step is to understand the
00:16:28.240 humans around us. Whether they're sat
00:16:30.560 next to us or listening from the other
00:16:32.399 room or just out having a drink, we need
00:16:35.759 to understand them.
00:16:38.240 >> And Alan, should we do this or how do we
00:16:41.279 do this? First of all, how do you
00:16:42.480 understand someone?
00:16:43.440 >> Well, let me give you a big mistake.
00:16:45.040 Don't try to talk to them when they are
00:16:48.240 watching television. You've got to ask
00:16:50.079 them questions to understand them. You
00:16:52.480 have to start to chat to them. You have
00:16:54.160 to ask them questions. You have to
00:16:55.759 understand their goals, their vision,
00:16:57.680 their future, where they're going.
00:17:00.000 That's the biggest gift you can give
00:17:02.079 someone else is your focus and attention
00:17:04.240 to understand them. Just don't do it
00:17:06.640 when they're watching Game of Thrones or
00:17:08.559 whatever it is. You will not have their
00:17:10.720 attention and you won't get a good
00:17:12.400 answer. You need to create the
00:17:14.720 environment
00:17:16.240 or the space to be able to have a good
00:17:19.280 conversation with them.
00:17:20.559 >> Well, then the question is, what
00:17:22.959 question do I ask? How do I know where
00:17:25.119 to begin? What questions should I ask?
00:17:26.959 And we have some ideas for you that we
00:17:30.160 found help to start the conversation in
00:17:32.400 a soft way.
00:17:34.400 >> Question one.
00:17:35.280 >> Question one. What did your family teach
00:17:37.520 you about money? And that starts to put
00:17:40.400 in brackets there. that starts to pull
00:17:41.760 out their beliefs and their identity.
00:17:44.160 Maybe they were told they are a certain
00:17:45.760 way. Maybe they picked up beliefs about
00:17:47.600 money from people around them. And that
00:17:50.160 that's my favorite opening question
00:17:51.840 because it starts it's not like you you
00:17:54.799 it's kind of what was the environment
00:17:56.320 that you grew up in that really helps to
00:17:58.559 open the conversation rather than
00:18:00.080 launching into like tell me your deepest
00:18:02.000 darkest fears and secrets about money.
00:18:04.160 >> It's a bit softer.
00:18:05.200 >> Bit softer. Question two. How was money
00:18:07.679 handled at home? Was it openly
00:18:09.440 discussed? Was it avoided, joked about,
00:18:11.679 argued over? What are the stories that
00:18:14.720 your family told about money? Then you
00:18:17.200 can kind of look into where are they
00:18:19.679 going? What would you do if you never
00:18:22.000 had to work again? Now, there is a good
00:18:25.200 question. What would you do if you never
00:18:27.760 had to work again? I have many answers,
00:18:32.240 but you want to ask them and hear their
00:18:34.080 answers first. Or what's most important
00:18:36.640 to you in life? Uncover their values.
00:18:39.520 what's actually important to them. Make
00:18:41.840 sure you do this one at a time. Do we
00:18:43.360 not barrage people with these questions?
00:18:45.120 >> You have to be gentle. This is not an
00:18:47.760 interrogation. You've got to be gentle
00:18:49.840 with the people around you. And
00:18:51.440 sometimes it's difficult to come up with
00:18:52.880 the questions. If you want support with
00:18:55.360 that, I have created some AI prompts
00:18:59.360 that will coach you through asking these
00:19:01.919 questions of yourself and other people.
00:19:04.799 The QR code links to the AI prompt page
00:19:08.000 and there are four or five prompts there
00:19:09.840 that will help you have these
00:19:11.200 conversations. The link is in the
00:19:13.440 YouTube description or it's on mission
00:19:15.760 control. So, if you don't like QR codes,
00:19:17.520 it's okay. The ninjas will also put the
00:19:19.679 link in the chat so you can find it
00:19:21.280 there as well. What's the job, Katie?
00:19:24.559 The idea is to map your money system.
00:19:27.440 So, you've hopefully done some work from
00:19:29.280 week three on understanding your system.
00:19:31.600 Let's also understand the systems of the
00:19:33.600 people around you. And these questions
00:19:35.200 are designed to tease out some of these
00:19:37.280 things. So, it's the same inner
00:19:38.720 alignment system that you've done or
00:19:41.039 you've been working on from week three.
00:19:43.039 And now it's okay. What are the people
00:19:45.280 in my life that I people I care about
00:19:47.440 want to talk about this stuff with?
00:19:49.360 Let's see what their system is.
00:19:53.600 Takes time, doesn't it?
00:19:55.840 Don't expect if you've been having
00:19:57.679 tricky conversations and been awkward
00:19:59.760 and perhaps arguments around this,
00:20:02.559 you're not going to suddenly magically
00:20:04.240 have this wonderful conversation. It's
00:20:05.919 going to take time. They might be a
00:20:07.679 little bit suspicious to start with as
00:20:09.200 well. Like you've been talking, we've
00:20:11.440 been arguing about money and now they're
00:20:13.120 doing this weird ask question thing.
00:20:15.360 What's going on? They might be
00:20:16.640 suspicious. So, be gentle. Be willing to
00:20:20.000 go first. Um, but not to not that it
00:20:24.880 means you're not listening. So, a lot of
00:20:26.640 the temptation is, well, let me tell you
00:20:28.159 my thing and this is all the work I've
00:20:29.679 done on my vision and my values. Maybe
00:20:32.159 it takes you going first to start the
00:20:33.760 conversation, but please leave space for
00:20:35.520 them to respond and listen to what they
00:20:37.600 say.
00:20:38.080 >> Yes, for those of you who like talking,
00:20:40.559 this is the challenging bit.
00:20:43.360 Uh, and the whole purpose here is you
00:20:45.520 don't need to convince them, you need to
00:20:47.840 understand them. That is the first step
00:20:50.320 to it. So, one of the comments that came
00:20:52.559 through on YouTube was, "What if the
00:20:54.480 other person just wants to spend all the
00:20:56.880 money and doesn't care about the
00:20:58.799 future?" Well, your job to start with is
00:21:01.600 to understand them. Does this come from
00:21:04.720 the fact that they lost lots of people
00:21:06.480 when they were younger, so they don't
00:21:07.919 think tomorrow's per uh tomorrow is
00:21:10.640 promised? Where does this spending come
00:21:13.679 from? What do they believe? How does it
00:21:15.760 work? And the better we can understand
00:21:17.840 them, the more we can talk to them about
00:21:20.720 it. We did write an entire article on
00:21:24.080 how to talk to your partner about money.
00:21:26.240 So if you want to see any of this
00:21:27.600 written down, that is the article to
00:21:29.919 help you. So step one for all of you is
00:21:33.679 understand
00:21:35.600 the humans around you. Ask them
00:21:38.000 questions. Which brings us on to step
00:21:40.799 two. Where is it that we're having
00:21:44.960 misalignment?
00:21:46.559 >> Before we do that, message from our
00:21:47.919 sponsors. Please like and subscribe.
00:21:50.000 >> Love you. Okay, most money arguments are
00:21:53.039 not really about spreadsheets. Shock,
00:21:54.720 horror. Martin was very shocked to know
00:21:57.200 that people don't like spreadsheets.
00:21:58.720 >> Some people don't, Alan.
00:21:59.919 >> Uh, but the argument is not about the
00:22:01.520 spreadsheet. What are we really arguing
00:22:03.360 about? Well, money is the surface. It's
00:22:06.159 always something deeper that's the
00:22:08.159 problem. For example, you might be
00:22:09.919 saying, "You spend too much." And like
00:22:12.000 that's what the argument is about. Why
00:22:13.360 are you spending so much? But there's a
00:22:14.960 deeper fear underneath it.
00:22:16.240 >> Yeah. I'm scared that I'll run out of
00:22:17.840 money if we keep spending like this. And
00:22:20.400 you have to understand what is driving
00:22:22.720 the other person. What is their inner
00:22:25.360 alignment system? What is actually
00:22:27.280 driving them from their beliefs, their
00:22:29.760 identity, and the different pieces? And
00:22:31.280 that will help you work out
00:22:34.159 where the issue is. So, we're using
00:22:36.720 those alignment levels as a kind of
00:22:40.240 diagnosis tool. So, as we go through
00:22:42.799 this, we're going to look at each of
00:22:44.000 those areas and help you understand is
00:22:46.480 that where this misalignment is coming
00:22:48.559 from because conflict is never like it's
00:22:51.280 always at the behavior level, but that's
00:22:53.120 never where it started. So, it's always
00:22:55.360 spending, avoiding, hiding, not
00:22:57.120 tracking, not opening statements,
00:22:58.640 watching television, ignoring them, or
00:23:00.320 going out. But if you looked at the
00:23:02.559 actual dashboard,
00:23:04.480 behavior is the output and what is
00:23:06.799 driving it is the goals, the values, the
00:23:08.960 identity. That's the things that drive
00:23:11.440 it all. But if we only ever fight about
00:23:13.679 the behavior,
00:23:15.840 we never understand the system that
00:23:17.919 created it. And if you don't understand
00:23:20.320 the system that created it, you're just
00:23:23.360 doomed to have the same fight again and
00:23:25.919 again and again. Have any of you ever
00:23:28.080 had the same conversation more than once
00:23:30.320 with people you care about?
00:23:31.600 >> I know what you're talking about.
00:23:35.520 >> No one nodded at that point. I'm quite
00:23:37.360 shocked about that.
00:23:38.960 >> Debbie nodding.
00:23:39.760 >> Debbie's nodding. She's with us. Thank
00:23:41.120 you. No, thank you.
00:23:42.799 >> Okay, so let's move on. This goals. This
00:23:45.200 is the fairly self-explanatory one is
00:23:48.320 where are you both heading? You need to
00:23:50.480 make sure that you're either a heading
00:23:53.039 at the same future or your futures work
00:23:54.960 together. So asking the people around
00:23:56.720 you, where are you going? What do we
00:23:58.799 want? What are we building? What does
00:24:00.960 having enough look like? Like what's the
00:24:03.280 future? Because if you're aiming at two
00:24:05.120 completely different futures, you'll
00:24:07.440 pull yourself apart.
00:24:09.039 >> And that's where you start with all of
00:24:10.720 this, isn't it? Trying to tease out like
00:24:13.120 what is it? What future do you want to
00:24:15.679 work towards? Where do you see yourself
00:24:17.520 heading? What how would you like life to
00:24:19.600 be? That's often the key one to start
00:24:21.200 with, isn't it? is if you've got
00:24:22.960 completely different outcomes that you
00:24:24.720 want, no wonder your behavior is going
00:24:26.400 to be different.
00:24:27.279 >> Exactly.
00:24:28.799 Uh maybe if you're on the couch now with
00:24:31.200 someone you like, look at them and say,
00:24:32.880 "Where are you heading? What's your
00:24:34.480 goal?" If you're not on the couch with
00:24:36.080 anyone, if you're somewhere else, maybe
00:24:37.520 text someone and say, "What's your goal
00:24:39.039 this week? What are you aiming to do?
00:24:41.039 How can I help you?" Uh okay, step two
00:24:45.200 is values. What's important to you? At
00:24:49.120 the start of our relationship, I was
00:24:51.760 optimizing for freedom, adventure, and
00:24:55.200 fun. Those were my main things that I
00:24:57.919 loved.
00:24:59.039 >> I was optimizing for security, peace,
00:25:01.360 and not standing out or being different
00:25:03.200 from people around me. Can you see how
00:25:05.600 this might lead to some conflict if it
00:25:07.919 we were trying to work on stuff together
00:25:09.760 and go to the same place?
00:25:12.159 >> Especially cuz I would want to be out
00:25:13.760 there doing things and Katie's like,
00:25:15.279 "Don't make a scene. Don't show us up."
00:25:17.919 And that caused huge arguments in our
00:25:21.440 household and we were being led by a
00:25:24.400 completely different compass. So step
00:25:27.360 two, do your values line up with the
00:25:30.320 people around you? What is actually
00:25:32.400 important to them? And this is all
00:25:34.880 coming back to the understanding bit,
00:25:36.240 but you can identify where on this
00:25:39.840 system you have the friction.
00:25:42.000 >> And that question, what are you
00:25:43.360 optimizing for is a really powerful one.
00:25:46.559 Don't use it as a weapon. Don't just I
00:25:48.799 use it a little bit of as a weapon when
00:25:50.159 Alan's like, "Should we eat chocolate?"
00:25:51.520 And I say, "What are you optimizing for,
00:25:53.200 Alan?" Uh, this is But it's a good tool
00:25:56.799 to use primarily for yourself to
00:25:59.360 understand why am I why am I doing this?
00:26:01.760 Why am I behaving this way? It's It can
00:26:05.440 really work because when Katie says,
00:26:06.640 "What are you optimizing for and I'm
00:26:08.240 about to buy peanut butter chocolate
00:26:10.240 cups?" Uh, it does make me think, "Am I
00:26:13.919 optimizing for health?" Because I say
00:26:15.360 that health is my number one value, but
00:26:17.760 in that moment I'm a normal human with
00:26:21.520 >> desires desires
00:26:23.440 >> and I'm not optimizing for health. And
00:26:26.400 sometimes it works and sometimes it like
00:26:28.640 like leave me alone, stop using my own
00:26:30.559 stuff on me. I just want chocolate. Um,
00:26:34.480 so sometimes it works, sometimes it
00:26:36.480 doesn't, but it at least allows me in
00:26:39.600 the moment to make a choice of whether I
00:26:42.640 live up to my values or not. Uh, someone
00:26:44.960 asked if it was Reese's peanut butter
00:26:46.720 chocolate cups. No, Trader Joe's dark
00:26:48.720 chocolate. They are outrageous. You've
00:26:51.440 never tried them? Uh, please do. They
00:26:53.919 are incredible.
00:26:54.720 >> Depends what you're optimizing for
00:26:56.000 though, doesn't it?
00:26:57.200 >> It does. Okay, the next step on the
00:26:59.200 diagnosis tool is just to we're going
00:27:01.039 through each of these levels to say,
00:27:02.480 okay, is this where we're stuck. So, the
00:27:04.320 next diagnosis point might be identity.
00:27:07.520 And that's another way of saying who you
00:27:10.320 believe you are when it comes to money.
00:27:12.720 >> Yeah. So, maybe some of you say, "Well,
00:27:14.960 I'm the saver in this relationship."
00:27:17.039 That comment on YouTube, one of you
00:27:18.720 saying, "I'm the saver." One of you
00:27:20.480 saying, "I'm the spender." Well, that
00:27:23.039 identity can cause you problems. I'm the
00:27:26.080 responsible one. I'm not a money person.
00:27:29.039 I'm the one who has to fix everything.
00:27:31.520 There's an identity that can cause a
00:27:33.279 huge amount of problems and put a lot of
00:27:34.960 blame on the other person or I'm the
00:27:37.200 spreadsheet one. Those identities can
00:27:40.320 cause you problems.
00:27:42.640 And if you have different identities,
00:27:44.559 the things that you believe about
00:27:46.159 yourself, you're going to behave
00:27:47.440 differently from people around you. So,
00:27:49.840 it's all of these different levels are
00:27:51.440 what lead to the different behaviors,
00:27:53.360 but all the time we're fighting at the
00:27:55.039 behavior level. We haven't got to what's
00:27:56.880 actually going on underneath.
00:27:58.559 >> Exactly. Uh, next off is the beliefs
00:28:02.080 which we spoke a lot about in week
00:28:05.039 three. What do you believe about money?
00:28:07.360 And these kind of beliefs. Money causes
00:28:09.600 arguments. Debt is normal. Investing is
00:28:12.000 gambling. Spreadsheets mean judgment.
00:28:14.799 Uh, talking about money makes things
00:28:16.880 worse. These kind of beliefs will affect
00:28:19.279 your behaviors. And we had a comment on
00:28:21.679 YouTube saying apprehensive about the
00:28:23.919 spreadsheet thing as I don't really want
00:28:25.919 people nosying what I watched on Netflix
00:28:28.159 or what game I bought once. It's
00:28:31.039 interesting people see spreadsheets as
00:28:33.120 control and some people don't and we
00:28:36.640 need to understand those beliefs to be
00:28:38.640 able to know whether we can work
00:28:40.240 together or not on them.
00:28:41.600 >> I think the key thing to unpack there is
00:28:44.640 uh so the comment says I don't really
00:28:46.320 want people nosying what I did. Who are
00:28:48.640 who are the people? who is it that you
00:28:51.120 don't want to know about this and has
00:28:52.960 this perhaps come from control before or
00:28:55.840 is it kind of a privacy thing of like I
00:28:57.840 don't really want other people to know I
00:28:59.840 suppose it depends who the spreadsheets
00:29:01.279 for and whether you are working with
00:29:03.120 people on this or whether you're working
00:29:04.880 with a friend and you don't really want
00:29:06.480 them to see and there are sort things
00:29:08.720 that you can probably kind of anonymize
00:29:10.640 and say look that's my spending I don't
00:29:12.720 want to feel controlled I'd rather not
00:29:14.880 go into the details of what it was there
00:29:17.840 is some things that you necessarily have
00:29:19.919 to share everything, just what you're
00:29:22.080 comfortable with. And maybe there is a
00:29:23.600 bit of like, oh, I don't want don't want
00:29:25.200 oversight. I don't want someone looking
00:29:27.279 at what I've been doing.
00:29:28.880 >> Did make me think every year for Katie's
00:29:30.960 birthday, I'm like, I have to ask her
00:29:32.960 not to check the spending. Please don't
00:29:35.120 check the spending cuz I'm about to buy
00:29:36.960 your gift. Stop looking at it. It's
00:29:39.200 meant to be a surprise. Uh, so there are
00:29:41.679 times where you want some privacy in
00:29:43.440 what you're doing and that's okay. you
00:29:45.279 should have the control of this little
00:29:47.279 bit or that little bit. And we we all
00:29:49.360 want to feel like a sense of autonomy, a
00:29:52.080 sense of ownership, a sense of I am my
00:29:54.559 own human being. I don't have to ask
00:29:56.559 Katie for money when I need it. Uh it's
00:29:59.520 okay to have my own pot. And we all need
00:30:02.080 to be able to feel that to feel
00:30:04.159 comfortable in life.
00:30:05.520 >> I think the thing there is to have that
00:30:07.360 conversation about it and say talk about
00:30:10.480 what's going on and how you would like
00:30:12.399 things to go.
00:30:13.440 >> Yes. Uh Karen says she's got a new
00:30:15.679 relationship with her spreadsheet now,
00:30:17.520 which I love. The spreadsheet won't
00:30:18.960 argue back and it will help you reach
00:30:20.960 your vision.
00:30:21.520 >> Yeah, you should probably sit down and
00:30:23.200 try and map the spreadsheet's money
00:30:24.720 system. See what it believes about life.
00:30:27.120 >> Okay, we're going to move on to the next
00:30:28.880 one, which is skills. Skills are rarely
00:30:32.480 just skills. What do I mean by that? Is
00:30:35.840 it actually a skills gap? I.e. I don't
00:30:38.640 know how to use Google Sheets. And well,
00:30:41.520 if you believed I can learn anything,
00:30:43.200 then you just learn how to use Google
00:30:44.880 Sheets. Is it really a belief or an
00:30:48.080 identity? Or is it all three? So tell
00:30:50.159 me, is this next one a skills gap, a
00:30:53.279 belief, an identity? I'm not techy. Is
00:30:57.120 that an identity, a belief, or a skills
00:30:59.760 gap?
00:31:03.200 Well, it's all three, isn't it? Because
00:31:04.559 they're saying, I, as a human, am not
00:31:06.640 techy. I believe I'm not techy and I
00:31:10.480 don't have the skills to use techie.
00:31:12.240 Well, that's a tough one to shift
00:31:15.600 and they have to want to change it if
00:31:17.679 they ever do. But it is something you
00:31:19.840 can learn.
00:31:20.399 >> These are the sorts of things where you
00:31:21.600 add the bridging belief that we talked
00:31:23.760 about in week three. It's like I haven't
00:31:25.440 figured out technology yet.
00:31:27.919 >> I'm becoming someone who might approach
00:31:30.240 technology and be curious about it.
00:31:33.279 We're talking, we're not asking you to
00:31:34.880 jump from I'm not techy to, oh, I'm a
00:31:36.880 spreadsheet wiz and I know everything
00:31:38.240 there is to know about tech and AI is my
00:31:40.320 best friend. No, we
00:31:42.320 >> probably need to break down technology
00:31:43.919 as well because technology is a very
00:31:46.399 large term. You're probably good at
00:31:48.159 using maybe the television that is
00:31:50.000 technology. There are tech that you can
00:31:52.240 use, but there's so many ways to handle
00:31:53.919 it.
00:31:54.159 >> I think that's another point as well,
00:31:55.360 isn't it? that we gen generalize
00:31:57.279 everything and just go no I'm not techie
00:31:59.760 therefore this is in the techie bracket
00:32:01.360 and there's so much in it which makes it
00:32:03.679 feel can feel very overwhelming if
00:32:05.760 you're grouping everything in together I
00:32:08.159 can't do spreadsheets
00:32:10.559 I'm bad with numbers is I'm bad with
00:32:12.880 numbers a skills gap or a belief
00:32:16.640 was an identity is an identity that
00:32:19.200 controls your future I won't understand
00:32:22.000 this you do it you're better at
00:32:25.840 Have you ever said that to someone who's
00:32:27.519 good at spreadsheets? And a quick watch
00:32:30.159 out for those of you who are good with
00:32:32.799 spreadsheets,
00:32:34.559 please let the other person have a
00:32:37.360 chance to play with the spreadsheet.
00:32:39.279 >> Are you talking to me?
00:32:40.960 >> I'm talking to everyone watching this
00:32:42.640 call. Uh if you're the one who controls
00:32:44.960 the spreadsheet, let the other person
00:32:46.880 have a play because they'll never get a
00:32:48.480 chance to learn if you don't let them
00:32:50.799 drive. And I know it's quicker if you do
00:32:53.200 it, but they'll never get the chance to
00:32:55.519 learn if you don't let them have a go.
00:32:58.000 >> Are you talking about being a little bit
00:32:59.279 spreadsheet territorial?
00:33:01.279 >> It's happened in our lives. Okay, moving
00:33:04.000 on. Behavior.
00:33:05.919 Behavior. Like behavior is where the
00:33:08.320 arguments show up. The spending, the
00:33:09.919 avoiding, the not tracking, all of that
00:33:11.600 stuff. What we want you to think is
00:33:13.360 behavior is the smoke.
00:33:16.640 Then we have to find out where the fire
00:33:18.640 is because the fire is the problem.
00:33:21.519 Behavior is the smoke. The fire is the
00:33:24.000 goals, the values, the identities and
00:33:25.600 all the other stuff. And then the
00:33:28.960 alignment system helps us find the fire.
00:33:31.840 But the smoke tells us that the fire is
00:33:33.840 occurring. So this whole system enables
00:33:36.159 us to work out where the issue is and be
00:33:38.480 able to actually look at it. Then the
00:33:40.559 final one on the alignment system is
00:33:42.399 environment. We have spoken a lot about
00:33:45.120 that. But the question here is, is your
00:33:47.840 setup helping or hurting you? Are you
00:33:50.240 talking to them at the wrong time? Are
00:33:52.480 you talking to them in the wrong place?
00:33:54.960 Are they tired? Are they hungry? Yes. If
00:33:58.799 you talk to me whilst I'm hungry about
00:34:00.640 anything, I will not be listening.
00:34:02.480 >> I think that happens to both of us,
00:34:03.840 doesn't it? We get a bit grumpy and
00:34:05.279 we're like, why is this monthly finance
00:34:07.039 meeting going badly? It's like, well, my
00:34:08.800 breakfast hasn't arrived yet.
00:34:10.480 >> Are they too distracted? Is there too
00:34:12.079 much pressure? Is there no shared
00:34:13.760 rhythm? That's the key bit. Two special
00:34:17.199 watch outs for the diagnosis bit. Two
00:34:19.599 very special watch outs, which these are
00:34:21.679 kind of overarching ones, aren't they?
00:34:23.679 >> Yeah. Number one is autonomy. We all
00:34:27.199 need to feel like we have a certain
00:34:29.359 amount of control. Now, if one of you's
00:34:33.040 decided on the plan that they may be
00:34:36.399 okay with the plan, they may not. But if
00:34:39.679 they feel like they're being controlled,
00:34:42.159 well, they're never going to go along
00:34:43.760 with the plan. And external alignment is
00:34:46.239 not about control. It's about coming
00:34:48.239 together to work on something. Uh
00:34:50.960 Fireman69 on YouTube says that Allan
00:34:53.280 should have a hidden Lego fund so that
00:34:55.119 he's free to spend. That would give me
00:34:57.440 autonomy and control over money to be
00:34:59.680 able to spend on Lego. And I'm fully in
00:35:02.000 agreement with that.
00:35:02.880 >> The other overall thing where you might
00:35:04.400 be misaligned is on timing. So you might
00:35:07.440 have the same idea but a different pace
00:35:10.560 of how you want to implement it. So one
00:35:12.320 of you might be like let's do this now.
00:35:13.839 This is amazing and someone else might
00:35:16.079 be like just chill out. Might just need
00:35:18.400 a little bit of time to think or to do
00:35:19.920 it at a different pace and not going 100
00:35:21.920 miles an hour. And it's kind of this
00:35:23.920 could tie into more kind of excitement
00:35:25.680 levels around it as well which we'll
00:35:26.960 come on to how to deal with that.
00:35:28.720 >> One thing to be remember not now doesn't
00:35:31.200 mean forever. It just means not right
00:35:33.440 now. But you do need to find a time. So
00:35:35.680 the question is what level are you
00:35:37.839 misaligned at? Not what's wrong with
00:35:40.160 you? Why are your values wrong? What's
00:35:42.000 wrong with you? What's going on with
00:35:43.200 your belief it is where are our systems
00:35:47.440 lined up? And we want to move from
00:35:50.079 blaming and all that stuff. We don't
00:35:51.839 like blame. Repeat after me. We do not
00:35:54.720 live in a blame culture here. We do not
00:35:57.200 live in a blame culture here. We just
00:35:59.119 want to find out what's going on and
00:36:00.640 make progress together.
00:36:01.760 >> So I'd love to know, put it in the chat.
00:36:03.920 What's your best guess of where you
00:36:05.760 might be misaligned? What level are you
00:36:07.920 misaligned with with the people that you
00:36:09.680 want to talk about this stuff with? Do
00:36:11.359 you have completely different goals? Is
00:36:13.359 what's important to you completely
00:36:14.960 different? What is your best guess of
00:36:18.960 which level or levels plural you are
00:36:21.680 misaligned at? And that's when when
00:36:23.680 you've diagnosed it, then you can start
00:36:25.520 to build towards an understanding as
00:36:27.440 well.
00:36:28.000 >> Yes. Uh we had one comment coming in
00:36:30.960 saying the misalignment level was
00:36:32.560 values. Well, that's where you start to
00:36:34.800 go, okay, let me understand the other
00:36:36.720 person's values. Where did they come
00:36:38.160 from? How did they end up with these
00:36:39.760 values? And where will those values lead
00:36:42.160 us? But the better you understand the
00:36:44.000 other human,
00:36:45.760 the less friction there will be to
00:36:47.680 coming up with a version together. I saw
00:36:50.160 Christine said that it was life stages
00:36:52.240 or being in different generations. And I
00:36:54.480 would say that's the goal or the vision,
00:36:57.440 isn't it? As you change over your life,
00:36:59.680 you have different vision as to what you
00:37:02.400 want for the rest of your life.
00:37:04.240 >> What's important to you at different
00:37:05.839 stages of life is very different. Me as
00:37:08.160 a 47y old has completely different goals
00:37:10.640 to me as a 20-year-old and it does
00:37:12.960 change over time and we need to be
00:37:14.720 cognizant aware of that thing.
00:37:18.400 Okay. What we really wanted to say to
00:37:21.040 you was
00:37:21.680 >> I don't like this slide.
00:37:22.720 >> Oh no you don't. Martin will hate this
00:37:24.400 slide. You cannot solve every problem
00:37:26.560 with a spreadsheet. Yes, this is a
00:37:28.160 picture of Katie trying to fix a
00:37:29.599 bathroom toilet with a spreadsheet. You
00:37:31.760 can't solve every problem with a
00:37:33.119 spreadsheet. You can't solve a values
00:37:35.200 conflict with a spreadsheet. You can't
00:37:36.800 solve a belief conflict with a lecture.
00:37:39.280 Tried that. Didn't work. Uh you can't
00:37:42.640 solve a skills gap with shame. Why
00:37:45.040 aren't you good at this? You can't solve
00:37:47.040 an autonomy conflict by control. You
00:37:50.000 can't put more control on the person. It
00:37:52.160 doesn't work. Now if anything has gone
00:37:56.079 wrong in the past, you're you have two
00:37:58.880 options. One, you can forgive yourself
00:38:01.040 or the other person or two, you can
00:38:04.000 punish yourself or the other person.
00:38:06.640 Those are your two choices. Uh you know
00:38:10.079 which one we would probably lean
00:38:11.520 towards. It's forgiving and moving on.
00:38:13.839 >> Oh, I'm glad you clarified that.
00:38:15.200 >> Yeah, because mistakes are inevitable.
00:38:18.079 We all make mistakes. We are human. But
00:38:21.040 if we don't learn, we're doomed to
00:38:23.599 repeat the past.
00:38:25.760 So we make a mistake,
00:38:28.480 we forgive, but we don't learn, well,
00:38:30.640 we'll make the same mistake again. And
00:38:32.800 then we forgive, but we don't learn, and
00:38:34.480 we make the same mistake again, and
00:38:36.400 we're doomed to go round and round and
00:38:40.320 round, which is what we want to avoid.
00:38:42.720 We want to learn and exit the loop. And
00:38:47.680 this is a huge one. I really want you to
00:38:49.599 hear this.
00:38:50.880 If you or someone else keeps bringing up
00:38:53.119 the same thing again and again and
00:38:57.520 again, it is because they don't trust
00:39:00.480 you to do it. They don't trust you. So,
00:39:04.160 if you catch yourself repeating
00:39:05.920 something to someone, it means you don't
00:39:08.079 trust them on that one point. Not on
00:39:11.119 everything, on that one point. And if
00:39:13.280 they do the same thing to you, they keep
00:39:15.040 repeating, "Can you do this? Can you do
00:39:16.640 this? Can you do this?"
00:39:18.960 It's because they don't trust that it
00:39:20.640 will happen.
00:39:22.560 And the key to all of this and what
00:39:24.240 we're trying to say is forgive, learn,
00:39:27.839 and then change something so we move on.
00:39:30.480 Forgive, learn, change something, and
00:39:33.440 then we move on. Uh, so that is
00:39:36.160 diagnose. Did you have something to say,
00:39:38.240 Katie?
00:39:38.960 >> I wanted to answer Kirsten's question
00:39:40.800 that what happens if the person is not
00:39:43.200 actually interested whatsoever in having
00:39:45.280 this conversation? They're not
00:39:46.480 interested. How do we approach that?
00:39:48.800 >> Well, I think I'd want to know what are
00:39:51.119 they specifically not interested in.
00:39:52.800 Have you tried talking to them at the
00:39:54.480 spreadsheet level? Have you tried
00:39:56.160 talking to them at the vision level?
00:39:58.240 Where are they going in life? Like what
00:40:00.800 are they interested in? And then I would
00:40:03.520 try different questions to try and
00:40:05.359 unlock a conversation. There's normally
00:40:08.000 a question you can ask that gets someone
00:40:10.000 going, even the most resistant person.
00:40:13.200 Like if you had a million in the bank,
00:40:15.359 what would you do with your time?
00:40:17.920 Or where would you go? If you could go
00:40:20.079 anywhere for holiday next year, where
00:40:21.760 would you go? What would you do? How
00:40:23.920 would you do this? What would you do
00:40:25.520 this? And there's always a way. You
00:40:27.280 might have to try hard. You might have
00:40:28.640 to do it when they're not doing
00:40:29.760 something else. You might have to find a
00:40:31.200 way to break through to them. But
00:40:32.880 there's normally a way to get a
00:40:35.040 conversation started. And if you can
00:40:37.280 have an inkling of what their dream is,
00:40:39.200 whatever it is, I don't care if their
00:40:41.200 dream is spending 247 on a a golf course
00:40:45.760 or travel or doing nothing. Their dream
00:40:48.880 is to watch EastEnders 24/7 on
00:40:51.520 television. That is not my dream of a
00:40:53.680 dream life, but maybe that's what they
00:40:55.599 want. At least you can go, well, okay,
00:40:57.839 if that's what you want, maybe we can
00:40:59.359 figure out how to do it. which actually
00:41:02.079 brings us perfectly on to step three
00:41:05.200 which is cocreate.
00:41:07.280 So once we've understood the other
00:41:08.800 person, we've worked out where the
00:41:11.839 misalignment is or some of them, then we
00:41:14.640 can start to think about how do we
00:41:16.560 cocreate together.
00:41:18.480 >> I just wanted to add to your answer to
00:41:19.920 Kirsten that it does take time and
00:41:21.760 different approaches and it could take
00:41:24.319 five, six, seven or more different ways
00:41:26.800 of thinking of how to start that
00:41:28.880 conversation. I thought you were going
00:41:30.079 to say five, six, seven years.
00:41:31.760 >> Oh, it could take years. It could take
00:41:33.359 years.
00:41:34.000 >> And if you hopefully not
00:41:35.200 >> truly care about the other person, you
00:41:37.040 will keep going until you break through
00:41:38.560 to them. You will just keep positively
00:41:40.960 working at it and looking after them and
00:41:42.960 loving them and that's it. Okay, this
00:41:46.720 level is not about control. What happens
00:41:51.359 quite often is people go, "Ah, I've
00:41:53.760 realized we're misaligned at the values
00:41:56.000 level. Let me explain to you why my
00:41:58.880 values are better and you need to change
00:42:01.599 your values.
00:42:02.560 >> I think there's even key here is like
00:42:04.400 you are misaligned, not we are
00:42:06.400 misaligned and you
00:42:07.440 >> you are misaligned fault. You're
00:42:09.040 misaligned with me. You should change.
00:42:11.200 >> So we do not want to do that. We want to
00:42:14.000 avoid that. We've got six ways to create
00:42:17.040 alignment with the people around you.
00:42:19.119 And this can be your friends, your
00:42:20.480 family, your kids, your partners, the
00:42:22.720 ninjas. I don't care who it is. Here's
00:42:25.040 how you create alignment. Step one,
00:42:28.400 cocreate the vision because people
00:42:30.800 support what they co-create.
00:42:32.880 >> Number two is to reuse with new
00:42:34.960 information. You might want to give
00:42:37.599 first, ask clearly, make space for a
00:42:41.839 real yes, and then choose the path
00:42:44.319 together. And we're going to go into
00:42:45.520 what each of these means. This is just a
00:42:47.200 little summary. Maybe take a picture of
00:42:48.960 this slide so you know what's coming up.
00:42:52.319 Now, we're going to start with cocreate
00:42:54.319 the vision. Uh people support what they
00:42:57.440 co-create. If you go to someone with
00:42:59.920 here's my vision, you get an answer
00:43:01.920 whether they're on board or not. If you
00:43:04.079 help them come out of it with their
00:43:06.079 vision, then they are involved in it.
00:43:09.760 And it's not I made the plan, please
00:43:11.839 follow it. It's let's build this
00:43:14.480 together. Let's work out where we're
00:43:16.480 going together. I want to understand
00:43:18.400 you. One of the ways we did this was
00:43:21.359 when we were I think it was 2018 2019 we
00:43:24.960 were heading towards financial
00:43:26.640 independence and I was like well we need
00:43:29.359 to work out what we both dream life to
00:43:31.760 be like when we don't work. So I said to
00:43:34.800 Katie let's separately build a vision
00:43:38.880 each because I don't know if you realize
00:43:41.359 this but there's always one person in a
00:43:43.760 group or a family or a relationship that
00:43:45.839 talks more than the other. You have to
00:43:48.560 give the quiet person the space to be
00:43:51.359 able to build their vision. So we
00:43:53.359 separately each built a PowerPoint with
00:43:55.440 our vision for the future.
00:43:57.040 >> Then you come together and you share
00:43:59.440 them and then you look like is there
00:44:01.440 overlap? Are there differences? Oh, you
00:44:04.079 said you wanted to do that. That could
00:44:05.599 inspire me to want to do the same. Like
00:44:07.920 just because it's someone's idea doesn't
00:44:09.599 mean they own that idea. And you might
00:44:11.280 be like, "Oh, yeah, that sounds fun."
00:44:13.440 And here are a few of the slides from my
00:44:16.960 very first vision that I created for
00:44:18.880 Katie all those years ago. Uh I had
00:44:22.319 exciting exiting orbit and where do we
00:44:24.720 want to go from here? Are we selling the
00:44:27.119 flat we live in? What are we doing in
00:44:30.160 2020? Does Katie want to do creativity
00:44:32.720 and music? What's the next frontier? My
00:44:35.599 biggest question in the whole PowerPoint
00:44:37.200 is what's going to happen to all my Lego
00:44:38.960 if we sell my house? That was the
00:44:40.880 biggest question I had.
00:44:44.560 So the key here is to have that vision
00:44:47.119 because if you don't know where you're
00:44:48.880 heading, then the rest of it is kind of
00:44:50.640 irrelevant. Same with all this money
00:44:52.240 stuff. Like money is a tool to have the
00:44:54.079 life that you want or what life do you
00:44:56.720 want? Could you tell us right now
00:45:01.040 exactly what the vision is of the people
00:45:03.440 in your life that you love? Could you
00:45:06.560 go? Yes, Alan, Katie, I can tell you
00:45:09.440 exactly what my partner wants, what my
00:45:12.400 dad wants. I can tell you exactly what
00:45:14.720 their vision of the future is. And if
00:45:17.440 not, that's okay. That's not judgment.
00:45:19.599 That's just something to then go and
00:45:21.200 find out. What does that person really
00:45:23.599 want?
00:45:24.160 >> And it might be that they themselves are
00:45:25.920 not clear about because often we're so
00:45:28.000 busy with our day-to-day lives, aren't
00:45:29.520 we, that we don't think further ahead.
00:45:31.200 We don't think where we're heading. So,
00:45:32.960 it might be that they're not clear or it
00:45:35.119 might be that perhaps you haven't
00:45:37.040 understood their vision yet.
00:45:39.119 >> Yet.
00:45:41.440 Okay. Step two is rechoose with new
00:45:46.720 information. What does that mean, Katie?
00:45:49.359 >> This is a little thing that we like to
00:45:51.119 call zerobased thinking. So when we
00:45:54.880 decided that we were going to go and
00:45:56.480 have life on the road and become
00:45:58.000 nomadic, we were debating at the time we
00:46:01.119 had two investment studios that we
00:46:02.960 rented out and we were debating, should
00:46:04.960 we keep these studios, yes or no? We had
00:46:07.599 the postits out, we had the pros, we had
00:46:09.599 the cons. We're like, "Oh, I don't know
00:46:11.599 what to do." Our friend came in and
00:46:13.760 said, "Knowing what you know now, would
00:46:16.560 you buy those flats today?" We both
00:46:19.119 said,
00:46:19.599 >> we didn't even pause. We just both
00:46:21.119 looked at each other and went, "No way.
00:46:23.280 I do not want to spend my time fixing
00:46:25.119 showers and toilets. I am done with
00:46:27.200 those investment properties."
00:46:28.480 >> And then he said, "Well, you have your
00:46:30.000 answer then. Sell them.
00:46:31.440 >> Sell them immediately." Because if you
00:46:33.119 knowing what you know now, if you would
00:46:34.720 not buy those today, then you should get
00:46:37.520 rid of them immediately. And that was
00:46:38.960 such a powerful question, such a really
00:46:41.520 useful way of thinking about these
00:46:43.359 things, thinking about what you have in
00:46:44.880 your life. So the question is about
00:46:47.359 anything in your life, knowing what you
00:46:49.280 know now about that thing, would you
00:46:52.720 choose it again? Would you reby it?
00:46:56.960 Would you choose it again? And you can
00:46:58.880 do this for the car that you drive.
00:47:00.800 Knowing what you know now about the car
00:47:02.560 you drive, would you buy it again?
00:47:07.040 If yes, keep it. If no, we should change
00:47:10.240 it. What about the home you live in or
00:47:12.400 the town you live in? Knowing what you
00:47:14.800 know now,
00:47:16.480 would you choose to live where you live?
00:47:19.680 If yes, awesome. If no, change. How
00:47:22.640 about the job you have? Knowing what you
00:47:24.800 know now about your colleagues and the
00:47:26.640 job you have, would you choose it again?
00:47:29.680 And look, the key here is this isn't
00:47:31.839 about punishing past you for making a
00:47:34.079 decision that you think now you want to
00:47:35.920 change or update. It isn't like that at
00:47:38.240 all because you made the best decision
00:47:40.079 you could at the time with the
00:47:41.359 information available. You now have more
00:47:44.000 information. You time has passed. You've
00:47:46.079 lived in that house. You've driven that
00:47:47.680 car. You've worked in that job. You now
00:47:50.160 have additional information. You can
00:47:52.400 update and make a different decision if
00:47:54.480 you choose to. You might choose to keep
00:47:56.319 them, but it's just a different way of
00:47:57.680 thinking about these things of if we
00:47:59.520 were to draw have a clean piece of
00:48:02.079 paper, how do we want our life to be?
00:48:04.079 And the idea is to free you, not to
00:48:06.319 punish you for past decisions.
00:48:09.839 So, we did a podcast episode with this
00:48:11.920 dude called Brad on the subject of
00:48:14.720 zerobased thinking. It was on the
00:48:16.319 Tuesday podcast. Uh, if you want to know
00:48:18.800 more about that particular subject,
00:48:20.480 listen to that podcast. Lisa in the chat
00:48:22.960 says she absolutely loves zerobased
00:48:24.640 thinking. Uh, and Karen says, "Love the
00:48:27.280 way you explain this. It's been the most
00:48:29.040 powerful session so far for me," which
00:48:31.680 is awesome. Uh, Alistister has also
00:48:34.960 said, "What happened to our Lego? It's
00:48:36.800 currently in the parents loft. Uh, so my
00:48:39.440 Lego is sitting in the loft until I buy
00:48:41.520 a house or have somewhere to keep it
00:48:43.760 because it will not fit in my one bag.
00:48:45.839 Boo.
00:48:46.400 >> The third way to create alignment is
00:48:49.440 give.
00:48:49.839 >> Give first. What does this mean, Alan?
00:48:52.079 >> If you want someone to care about your
00:48:54.000 dream,
00:48:55.839 there's a better place to start than
00:48:57.680 selling them your dream. It's actually
00:48:59.920 to start with their dream. What do they
00:49:03.280 want? What lights them up? what future
00:49:06.000 would feel amazing to them. That is the
00:49:08.960 key bit.
00:49:11.119 >> And then the second step to that is to
00:49:12.960 help them move towards it. I love this
00:49:15.839 animation. Can you do that a few times,
00:49:17.440 please? It just makes me so happy. Help
00:49:20.000 them move towards that vision. And look,
00:49:23.200 the key here is Okay, you can move on.
00:49:26.880 The key here is not to keep score. It's
00:49:28.800 not like, well, I've helped Alan a lot
00:49:31.119 with his vision, therefore it's his turn
00:49:33.040 to help me. If you go in with that with
00:49:35.280 strings attached, that's not the idea of
00:49:37.520 this. The idea is to give freely to get
00:49:40.000 the joy of helping the people that you
00:49:41.760 love and care about getting what they
00:49:43.760 want without thinking, well, when are
00:49:46.079 they going to help me? Well, when are
00:49:47.280 they when do I get to have help with my
00:49:49.280 vision? That's not the idea. That's not
00:49:51.599 the purpose. There should be no strings
00:49:53.200 attached. You should do it lovingly and
00:49:55.040 willingly.
00:49:57.119 So the whole plan or the one of the key
00:49:59.440 philosophies that we live by is you can
00:50:02.160 have anything you want in life if you
00:50:05.680 help enough other people get what they
00:50:07.760 want in life. And it's a beautiful way
00:50:10.400 to operate to live uh is to give first
00:50:15.920 and that principle has changed our lives
00:50:20.079 and it really has helped us to live a
00:50:22.000 happy life. Okay. So that's give. Let's
00:50:24.800 go on to ask clearly. Uh if you're from
00:50:27.520 New Zealand, Australia, the UK or
00:50:29.599 Canada, uh you suffer with an inability
00:50:32.319 to ask clearly.
00:50:34.800 >> We are terrible at a massive
00:50:36.960 generalization.
00:50:38.000 >> It is a massive gener generalization,
00:50:40.079 but we are terrible at asking for help
00:50:41.760 directly and just like having the
00:50:44.240 competence say, I would love to work on
00:50:46.480 our finances together so we can build
00:50:49.040 the life we've talked about. Will you
00:50:51.440 help me, please?
00:50:53.839 Like it's really tough to ask directly
00:50:56.640 for what you want. But you have to ask
00:50:58.640 directly. People are not mind readers.
00:51:03.520 No one is a mind readader. They don't
00:51:05.280 know what you want. You have to tell
00:51:07.440 them what you want and ask them. And if
00:51:10.240 you ask them and they say no,
00:51:14.400 that's a good thing because we actually
00:51:16.640 now have information.
00:51:19.040 Then we need to know is it actually a
00:51:21.680 no? Is it a knot now? Is it a knot like
00:51:24.800 this? Is it a knot at this speed? Is it
00:51:27.839 not with more of this or not with that?
00:51:29.920 Like why is it a no? Because it's better
00:51:32.000 to have an actual no than it is to be
00:51:35.119 left wondering about this. Which leads
00:51:37.680 us very nicely on to making space for a
00:51:40.480 real yes. Because there may have been
00:51:44.000 some fake yeses, particularly in the
00:51:46.319 Donigan household. Alan comes and goes,
00:51:48.319 "Oh, I could do this really cool thing."
00:51:50.240 and I just go yes or I might even say
00:51:53.760 yes but perhaps not mean it. And that is
00:51:57.920 not ideal on my part and has led to many
00:52:00.559 arguments as well.
00:52:01.680 >> Fake yeses are a tough thing to deal
00:52:05.119 with. People will say yes, fine,
00:52:07.200 whatever you want. Do what you like. I
00:52:10.480 said yes, didn't I? And that can be
00:52:13.280 really painful to deal with. So, what we
00:52:16.160 really want to know is it an actual yes
00:52:18.960 or is it something else? And you might
00:52:20.559 be thinking, well, why would they say
00:52:22.000 yes and not they mean it? Like, I don't
00:52:24.000 understand. Why would they say yes and
00:52:26.319 not mean it? Katie
00:52:28.960 looking at me here cuz I'm the one that
00:52:30.960 does it. Uh perhaps I and you and the
00:52:34.319 person responding might want to avoid
00:52:35.839 conflict. Like, as humans, a lot of us
00:52:38.319 have this thing of like, oh, it's bad to
00:52:40.400 disagree and have conflict. They might
00:52:42.400 say yes just supposedly for an easier
00:52:45.280 life, but it's not easier, is it? We all
00:52:47.040 know that in the short term it kind of
00:52:49.599 alleviates thing, but just pushes the
00:52:51.440 problem further down the road. Maybe
00:52:53.040 it's to be liked. Maybe they don't know
00:52:54.960 how to articulate no. Maybe it's not
00:52:57.440 safe for them to say no. Maybe you've
00:53:00.160 not made it safe for them to say no. And
00:53:03.040 the vision might be a yes, but the price
00:53:05.359 might be too high. Or they they don't
00:53:07.760 even have their own ideas. So they're
00:53:09.200 like, "Well, in the absent of my own
00:53:10.480 idea, I'll say yes to your idea."
00:53:12.640 >> And then this is a big one that I do
00:53:14.480 quite a lot is uh I wasn't even
00:53:16.559 listening properly and Alan says
00:53:17.920 something. I go, "Oh, yeah, great." And
00:53:19.760 then he's like, "Okay, let's do it." And
00:53:21.200 I'm like, "Oh, what
00:53:22.240 >> what have I signed up for
00:53:23.359 >> talking about?" So this comes back to,
00:53:25.680 "Oh, thanks." This comes back to, you
00:53:28.319 know, don't ask them a life-changing
00:53:30.720 question when they're
00:53:31.920 >> watching the television telly or trying
00:53:34.079 to cook dinner and they're distracted or
00:53:36.240 dealing with the kids. You know, there's
00:53:37.760 so many distractions in life. These
00:53:39.760 conversations deserve the time and space
00:53:42.079 that
00:53:43.920 they deserve the time and space.
00:53:45.599 >> They do.
00:53:46.720 >> Uh, and this yes, no thing, it's not
00:53:49.280 binary, is it? It's so much more nuance
00:53:51.599 to it than that. We're not, it's not
00:53:53.040 either a clear yes or a clear no.
00:53:55.280 There's this gray space in between.
00:53:57.520 >> But we tried to make it less uh tried to
00:54:01.359 make it more numeric and helpful.
00:54:03.119 Sometimes it helps to think about a
00:54:04.640 scale, doesn't it? So what you could say
00:54:06.400 to them is on a scale of 1 to 10 how in
00:54:10.079 on this idea are you? uh n to three is
00:54:13.040 no or not now. 3 to six is maybe with
00:54:17.680 conditions or six to eight is yes but
00:54:21.440 there's like some challenges or actually
00:54:23.680 hell yeah I am all in and you can
00:54:27.280 actually understand their excitement
00:54:29.200 levels then you can ask them well why
00:54:32.880 did you pick that number and how would I
00:54:37.040 like make it more exciting for you what
00:54:40.319 would make it safer what would make it
00:54:42.079 easier what would make it feel like a
00:54:44.000 win to you if we did this. So, you make
00:54:46.240 it easier. It's not a binary thing. It's
00:54:48.480 like, okay, you don't quite like my
00:54:50.160 initial idea. What would make it better?
00:54:53.119 And what we're really talking about is
00:54:54.640 this kind of conditional yes when people
00:54:57.200 say yes, but they don't really mean it.
00:54:59.520 And there are a lot of unspoken caveats.
00:55:03.040 >> If this was a lawyer, they would say yes
00:55:04.800 and then hand you a 12-page document
00:55:06.960 with terms and conditions of what's
00:55:09.680 actually happening. Um and most conflict
00:55:12.640 is people say yes but without the
00:55:14.559 conditions and then when it comes to it
00:55:16.720 they get upset. Uh so help them to
00:55:19.599 complete the sentence. Yes if we do it
00:55:22.960 this way.
00:55:25.599 Yes if we protect this thing like yes if
00:55:28.880 I still get to watch the football cup
00:55:30.800 final or yes if I still get to do this
00:55:32.720 or yes if I still get to carry Lego
00:55:34.559 around the world with me. Uh yes if it
00:55:37.280 doesn't give me X. cost me
00:55:40.160 >> cost me x. And the real key is to give
00:55:43.520 the other person space to think. There
00:55:46.240 is probably one of you in the
00:55:47.680 relationship who speaks very quickly and
00:55:50.400 one of you that's more reflective. In
00:55:53.200 your family, there are people who are
00:55:54.799 more reflective and people who will
00:55:56.799 answer instantly. You need to give them
00:55:59.599 space.
00:56:02.160 And then you know if they say no and it
00:56:05.200 is a no of you know I'm not really into
00:56:07.040 doing the thing that you're interested
00:56:08.720 in doing then then you need to ask for
00:56:10.960 the freedom to do it yourself. You can
00:56:12.720 say look actually I really want us to do
00:56:14.960 this together but if this isn't
00:56:17.040 something that you want right now please
00:56:18.960 can I have the freedom to go and do it
00:56:20.480 for me because it's really important to
00:56:22.000 me
00:56:22.799 >> and you have to ask for what you want
00:56:24.880 and in general
00:56:27.839 we are terrible at asking for what we
00:56:30.480 want. Why is there a cup of tea on this
00:56:32.240 slide, Alan?
00:56:32.880 >> Why is there a cup of tea on this slide?
00:56:34.559 Um, my mom when we were growing up would
00:56:38.880 say, "Would you like a cup of tea,
00:56:40.720 Alan?" Do you know what that means?
00:56:43.839 Those of you who speak British, do you
00:56:46.000 know what would you like a cup of tea
00:56:47.760 means?
00:56:50.079 Yes, it means, "Can you make me a cup of
00:56:52.160 tea?" Uh, I would just answer, "No, I
00:56:56.240 don't want a cup of tea." Cuz I actually
00:56:57.920 don't really drink tea unless it's
00:56:59.599 peppermint tea. So, I just ask.
00:57:01.359 >> You're quite simple and straightforward,
00:57:02.799 aren't you? If someone says, "Do you
00:57:04.079 want a cup of tea?" and you don't want a
00:57:05.359 cup of tea, you say, "No, thank you." It
00:57:07.200 did take you a little bit of time to
00:57:08.960 >> to be able to translate
00:57:11.440 uh what my mom was saying to me. And I
00:57:14.319 didn't realize that what she was doing
00:57:16.079 was asking for what she wanted, but she
00:57:18.559 wasn't able to do it directly. And there
00:57:21.119 are some nationalities around the world
00:57:22.799 who are very good at being direct. You
00:57:24.880 know who you are. And there are other
00:57:26.640 ones that are terrible. I would assume
00:57:29.839 that 90% of the people on this call
00:57:31.839 aren't very good at directly asking for
00:57:34.160 what they want. So, here's my challenge
00:57:36.000 to you. Please ask for what you want
00:57:38.640 directly. Cuz if we were just for a
00:57:42.240 moment to give you an insight into our
00:57:44.079 relationship, which I know there have
00:57:45.440 been many this evening, um Katie isn't
00:57:48.720 very good at asking directly for what
00:57:50.480 she wants because her family don't do
00:57:52.960 that. But what do you think me as her
00:57:55.839 husband want to know?
00:57:58.400 Like the thing that lights me up the
00:58:00.000 most is her happiness. So I want to know
00:58:03.599 what she wants. Tell me.
00:58:06.720 But it's tough for her to do that. So
00:58:09.040 quite often the people in your life
00:58:10.640 actually care and love you and want to
00:58:12.640 know what you want. You have to tell
00:58:15.359 them and ask and communicate because
00:58:18.559 none of us are mind readers.
00:58:20.400 >> That training.
00:58:20.960 >> So please tell me what you want.
00:58:24.400 >> They interrupted. I apologize.
00:58:26.160 >> That's okay. The training is so strong
00:58:28.000 though, isn't it? And it's almost this
00:58:29.119 like forbidden thing. Sometimes I do ask
00:58:30.880 for what I want and then I go, I ask for
00:58:33.359 what I want. As if it's just like
00:58:34.720 forbidden fruit and it was like, "Oh, I
00:58:36.480 would like to have an apple, please."
00:58:38.799 Like, it's not even anything that big.
00:58:40.400 It's just so interesting how we're
00:58:42.319 trained and we can start to do the
00:58:44.000 repetitions to change that and change
00:58:46.559 that behavior. Perhaps going back into
00:58:48.799 some of the identity values and beliefs
00:58:50.880 and things underneath it that mean you
00:58:52.720 think maybe you're not allowed to or you
00:58:54.640 don't deserve it. Exactly. Exactly.
00:58:57.040 >> When I say you, I might be talking about
00:58:59.520 me.
00:58:59.839 >> I know
00:59:00.240 >> what's next.
00:59:01.200 >> Uh next, one thing if you can is
00:59:03.839 learning together. I see a few of you
00:59:06.240 sat on the couch together, which is
00:59:07.680 amazing. Some of you have got your
00:59:09.119 families with you, but learning
00:59:10.880 together. Shared learning
00:59:14.079 creates a shared language because now
00:59:17.040 you've been through this, you can talk
00:59:18.960 about it together.
00:59:20.240 >> Yeah. Cuz if you went up to a random and
00:59:21.920 said, "Have you plugged any leaks
00:59:23.200 recently?" then they might not know what
00:59:24.640 you're talking about. But if you're
00:59:25.839 talking to someone that has done the
00:59:27.440 course, then you've got that shared
00:59:29.200 language. And I think that's some uh
00:59:31.440 perhaps why people do think this might
00:59:32.960 be a cult.
00:59:33.760 >> Yes. Have you done a pleasure swap
00:59:35.359 recently?
00:59:36.160 >> Um no, not recently. I think we could do
00:59:38.240 at the weekend.
00:59:38.960 >> So if you can do the course together, do
00:59:41.599 a book together, listen to a podcast in
00:59:44.000 the car together, watch a video
00:59:45.599 together, do the workshop together, do
00:59:47.280 your monthly finance meeting together.
00:59:50.640 if you can, it creates a shared language
00:59:54.240 for it. So that's make space for a real
00:59:56.880 yes. And then the final one is choosing
00:59:59.520 a path, which I know in some of the chat
01:00:02.319 it's got a little bit deep with
01:00:03.760 different things, but this could be the
01:00:05.839 big part of this picture is maybe your
01:00:09.680 visions aren't actually compatible. One
01:00:12.319 of you wants to live in the mountains,
01:00:14.319 one of you wants to live in the beach.
01:00:16.400 Maybe the visions aren't actually
01:00:19.200 compatible.
01:00:20.960 You can't drag someone else into your
01:00:23.760 dream.
01:00:25.359 No matter how hard you try, I have
01:00:27.920 tried.
01:00:29.599 And there are three possible paths here.
01:00:32.880 Path one is the shared path. We want the
01:00:36.000 same thing together. Magically, we want
01:00:38.160 the same thing together. Magically.
01:00:40.319 Magically, we want the same thing
01:00:42.000 together. It doesn't happen very often.
01:00:45.599 Number two is the parallel path where
01:00:48.240 you want different things but it still
01:00:51.119 works and you can go together and you're
01:00:53.040 sort of on the same journey together but
01:00:55.440 you're doing different things together.
01:00:57.920 And then three is maybe actually it's
01:01:00.480 separate paths and you stop dragging the
01:01:03.680 other person off like this is not a
01:01:05.680 shared path that we're going on and you
01:01:08.160 have to free each other to do it. We're
01:01:11.119 not talking about necessarily ending the
01:01:14.000 relationship with them. We're just
01:01:15.839 saying, okay, we're on different paths,
01:01:17.440 so we need to allow each other space to
01:01:19.680 pursue what it is that we want to
01:01:21.200 pursue. And actually, the the irony with
01:01:23.599 that is probably actually brings you
01:01:25.119 closer together because you both feel
01:01:26.960 free and able to do what you actually
01:01:28.880 want without kind of feeling like you
01:01:31.040 have to make considerations for the
01:01:32.559 other person because you've freed each
01:01:34.240 other to say that this is what I want.
01:01:36.720 And there does come a stage that if
01:01:39.520 you've spent years working on this stuff
01:01:41.119 and it really doesn't work, maybe you
01:01:42.880 really do need to free each other,
01:01:44.319 whoever it is to go and follow your own
01:01:46.079 paths, maybe it doesn't work. But you've
01:01:49.359 given it your best shot. You've
01:01:50.799 understood them. You've tried all the
01:01:52.400 tools. You've given everything to this
01:01:54.960 and you're happy and you know what
01:01:57.040 you're going to do. So there's the
01:01:58.880 possible three paths that might happen
01:02:02.640 after some of these conversations. And
01:02:05.200 one something we found one of the most
01:02:08.640 not the easiest way to do it but one of
01:02:10.480 the most effective is to just if you
01:02:14.000 really want someone to do something with
01:02:15.440 you and you haven't been able to get on
01:02:17.599 the same page with them to understand
01:02:19.119 them to get together is to just inspire
01:02:22.480 them through the results and just going
01:02:24.240 and living your life. We've done this
01:02:26.079 with lots of our friends and our
01:02:27.520 families like they didn't perhaps when I
01:02:30.000 was in the preachy phase I was like you
01:02:31.280 should do this you should do that and
01:02:32.640 they were turned off understandably but
01:02:35.119 then we go and live our lives and shown
01:02:37.520 like they're like oh how are they able
01:02:39.119 to keep traveling they're still
01:02:40.720 traveling after 6 years what's going on
01:02:43.119 and then they start to ask questions
01:02:45.040 because they can see that you've done
01:02:46.960 something with your life that's
01:02:48.559 different and they go how did they
01:02:50.559 manage that and then they come with
01:02:51.920 curiosity but it's difficult because you
01:02:54.720 you kind of have to wait for them to
01:02:56.160 come to you. Sometimes
01:02:58.799 >> it really is tough, but the best thing
01:03:00.480 you can do is live your life. And my
01:03:03.040 friend Bryce says, "Be so obnoxiously
01:03:05.760 happy they can't ignore it." Which I
01:03:08.559 absolutely love. Just work on your
01:03:11.440 happiness and your life. And you have to
01:03:14.400 do what you can do. And one thing I did
01:03:16.799 want to say to you all is Katie and I
01:03:19.680 run a course on finances.
01:03:22.319 I can help
01:03:24.720 40,000 strangers on the internet to
01:03:27.200 improve their finances,
01:03:29.440 but I can't help some of my family.
01:03:32.640 And sometimes you just have to accept
01:03:36.640 they don't want to. They're not ready.
01:03:39.280 You just have to accept that. And you
01:03:41.599 have to help the people who show up. You
01:03:43.920 have to give to the people who show up.
01:03:45.920 And you have to look after yourself. You
01:03:48.799 are important.
01:03:54.799 Now, a message for our younger viewers.
01:03:58.799 This stuff is critical to learn early.
01:04:02.960 Learn this stuff early if you can. Maybe
01:04:05.599 not as early as this slide says, but
01:04:08.480 before you get married, before kids,
01:04:12.480 before mortgages, before shared debt,
01:04:14.880 moving countries, building a business
01:04:16.640 together.
01:04:17.359 >> This could be early in the relationship,
01:04:19.359 right? We're not saying necessarily like
01:04:21.119 to most people on this call aren't
01:04:22.880 babies, but perhaps if you're entering a
01:04:24.880 new relationship, if you're involved,
01:04:26.160 >> there's a few 10 and 12 year olds
01:04:27.599 watching, which is amazing. Hello, young
01:04:29.680 people. Uh, ask the people you're going
01:04:32.640 to end up with, what life do you want to
01:04:34.640 be like? Cuz if you can master these
01:04:36.319 skills early, it's unbelievable where
01:04:39.119 it'll take you and you will save a lot
01:04:41.280 of problems later on in life. Cuz people
01:04:44.160 are not good at having these
01:04:45.440 conversations before they end up in a
01:04:47.200 relationship. And the whole purpose of
01:04:49.200 this is to build a life without dragging
01:04:53.760 someone into it with you by
01:04:56.319 understanding their dreams, sharing
01:04:58.799 yours, asking clearly. Make space for a
01:05:01.359 real yes. Choose the way forward and
01:05:03.920 choose the life together. That's it.
01:05:07.039 That's what we really want for all of
01:05:09.280 you. So we talked about the three
01:05:11.599 different steps tonight to uh getting
01:05:16.000 aligned with the people that you care
01:05:17.599 about about money. So the first step was
01:05:19.520 to understand the second was to diagnose
01:05:22.079 using that inner alignment system of you
01:05:24.400 know is it our values that are
01:05:25.599 misaligned is it our beliefs and then
01:05:27.680 finally to how to cocreate together. So
01:05:30.319 those are the three steps.
01:05:33.200 >> Now please stay tuned for the closing
01:05:36.000 message. I sound like an advert every
01:05:37.520 time I say that. Stay tuned for the
01:05:38.960 closing message
01:05:39.839 >> from our sponsors.
01:05:40.720 >> Uh, no, we have the freedom work.
01:05:42.720 >> Yes,
01:05:43.119 >> your freedom work this week is to
01:05:46.160 understand someone else. Don't care who
01:05:48.559 it is. If the person you really want it
01:05:51.760 to be is too big a challenge, just start
01:05:53.520 with someone else and practice somewhere
01:05:54.960 else. Start. But choose one person. Ask
01:05:58.319 one gentle question. Do not start with
01:06:01.520 numbers. You know who you are or
01:06:04.480 spreadsheets. Listen,
01:06:06.960 you don't have to fix them. You just
01:06:09.520 have to listen to them and write down
01:06:11.599 what you learned. That is your job is
01:06:14.640 listen to them, understand them, and
01:06:16.559 write down what you've learned. Which
01:06:18.160 isn't necessarily what I learned isn't
01:06:19.760 necessarily the answer to the question
01:06:21.839 that you asked. It's more kind of what
01:06:23.520 did you learn from doing it that way?
01:06:25.599 What worked? What was effective? What
01:06:27.680 seemed to turn the other person off? And
01:06:29.520 to learn and to take that into the next
01:06:31.200 conversation. and then a little bit of
01:06:33.440 freedom work for you. Maybe you actually
01:06:35.920 want to start building your own vision.
01:06:38.319 Where are you headed? What do you want
01:06:40.799 life to be like? And then maybe one of
01:06:42.880 the questions you ask the other person
01:06:44.160 is, would you be willing to build a
01:06:45.839 vision with me? I want to understand
01:06:47.680 what you want in life. And we start
01:06:49.839 there and we start small. If this feels
01:06:52.799 daunting, I created a bunch of AI
01:06:56.799 prompts that will help you to do this.
01:06:59.440 Uh, all the feedback so far is the AI
01:07:01.920 prompts have been really powerful
01:07:04.160 helping people to do things. Uh, if it
01:07:06.480 hasn't worked for you, please tell me
01:07:08.000 because then I can make them better. I
01:07:09.599 need all the feedback, but try them. I
01:07:13.280 designed a bunch to help you get going
01:07:15.280 with this. Some really powerful ones.
01:07:17.680 All the notes, catchup links, resources
01:07:20.079 that you're ever going to want or need
01:07:21.520 are on mission control. So, please
01:07:23.520 bookmark that page. It has everything
01:07:26.480 you could ever need. Well, relating to
01:07:28.640 Rebel Finance School, I can't promise it
01:07:30.319 will solve all of your problems in all
01:07:31.760 areas of your life. Caveat. Don't know
01:07:33.599 where I'm going with that. Move on,
01:07:34.559 Ellen. Quickly.
01:07:35.280 >> Uh, if you're on YouTube, please hit
01:07:36.960 like and subscribe. It helps us to reach
01:07:38.960 more people and gives us a tingle of
01:07:40.720 joy.
01:07:41.599 >> Now, where have we got to with this
01:07:44.000 training adventure that we've been on?
01:07:45.680 Well, we did the reconnaissance
01:07:47.039 sessions. They were weeks one to three.
01:07:49.839 Then we talked about compounding and the
01:07:52.079 magic of compounding. And now we're on
01:07:54.400 week five, how to talk about money.
01:07:56.640 Coming up, I know you're excited about
01:07:58.240 it, the sexy stuff. Weeks six to eight,
01:08:00.960 we're going to be talking about
01:08:02.079 investing. And then we're going to talk
01:08:04.480 about how to know if and when you can
01:08:06.960 stop working if you choose to, and how
01:08:08.799 to make sure that money lasts you until
01:08:11.200 your expiration date.
01:08:12.720 >> Exactly. Thursday is the monthly money
01:08:16.000 habit, the monthly finance meeting. It's
01:08:18.319 actually the we do our monthly finance
01:08:20.960 meeting on the last day of the month.
01:08:22.479 So, our one is tomorrow, which we're
01:08:24.479 very excited about. We've been doing it
01:08:26.080 for 10 years now. We had a comment
01:08:28.560 earlier saying it was one of the most
01:08:30.158 life-changing things that uh people had
01:08:33.040 done.
01:08:33.359 >> They said they've been doing it for 3
01:08:34.799 years, and they're excited to see some
01:08:37.198 tips from
01:08:38.000 >> My husband and I have actually been
01:08:39.120 doing monthly finance meetings for about
01:08:40.799 3 years now, and it's completely changed
01:08:42.719 our finances for the better. So, that's
01:08:44.719 what we're guiding you through Thursday.
01:08:46.880 And the plan is do a monthly finance
01:08:48.880 meeting with the Donigans. We'll show
01:08:50.238 you how it is. And then next Monday, the
01:08:52.640 big one, the sexy stuff, we are on to
01:08:55.600 investing, which we are very much
01:08:57.839 looking forward to.
01:08:58.719 >> What's this thing about here, Alan?
01:09:00.479 Investing questions. I have many
01:09:02.158 questions.
01:09:02.719 >> I know you do. Uh, I wanted to get a
01:09:05.679 feel for where everyone was with
01:09:08.080 investing. So, I have vibe coded a
01:09:11.198 plugin to our website that allows you to
01:09:13.679 add questions and upvote other people's
01:09:16.560 questions. So, you can find this link in
01:09:19.359 the YouTube description here. The ninjas
01:09:21.920 will put it in the chat. It'll be in the
01:09:23.279 course notes, but add your questions
01:09:25.279 about investing. Please check other
01:09:27.839 people's questions. And if your
01:09:29.679 questions already been asked, hit upvote
01:09:32.719 and we're going to answer the ones with
01:09:34.399 the most most up votes and make sure we
01:09:37.198 cover as many of your questions over the
01:09:38.960 next three weeks as possible. But I need
01:09:41.359 to know what you want us to cover to
01:09:43.520 make sure we deliver a good job for you.
01:09:46.399 The ninjas are doing a marvelous job,
01:09:48.080 aren't they? They've been scurrying
01:09:49.359 around answering your questions, putting
01:09:51.279 links in the chat. Derek's on refund and
01:09:54.000 customer service. If you don't like the
01:09:55.440 course, he's making sure you get all
01:09:56.560 your refunds. The ninjas are a wonderful
01:09:58.800 group of humans. They volunteer their
01:10:00.560 time. We're very grateful for them. Uh
01:10:02.800 if a ninja has helped you, please just
01:10:04.560 say thank you because uh they're
01:10:06.000 awesome.
01:10:06.800 >> Exactly. Um,
01:10:09.520 the closing message, the closing message
01:10:12.480 is money is a tool to live the life you
01:10:16.480 want to live. That's it. And if you can
01:10:19.280 come together to pull that lever, that
01:10:22.320 tool, you can make so much more progress
01:10:26.000 with it. And money is a tool to do
01:10:28.080 amazing things. There's one comment that
01:10:30.800 came in that said, "This question is
01:10:32.480 quite tough as a widow learning to
01:10:34.800 manage my finances on my own." Uh, if
01:10:37.440 that's you, our heart goes out to you.
01:10:40.239 Losing someone is incredibly tough.
01:10:44.400 And if we can help you organize your
01:10:47.040 money, well, maybe you can create some
01:10:48.960 amazing experiences with other humans in
01:10:51.280 your life because there are other people
01:10:52.880 out there as well. And we want you to
01:10:55.120 have the finances to be able to spend
01:10:57.840 time with the people you love and to be
01:11:00.000 lined up with the people you love. and
01:11:01.920 not fighting them about money, not
01:11:03.600 fighting them about things, but working
01:11:05.360 together
01:11:06.960 to have cool experiences to do amazing
01:11:09.920 things. I'm quite good at spreadsheets,
01:11:13.600 but for all my love of spreadsheets, if
01:11:16.080 Alan when Alan and I were not lined up
01:11:18.159 with how and where and what we were
01:11:20.159 doing, then like so what about the
01:11:22.800 spreadsheets? And it was so painful when
01:11:24.480 we weren't lined up and we're still
01:11:26.000 working on this to get lined up in all
01:11:28.719 sorts of things in our lives. But it's
01:11:30.880 such a powerful and useful exercise to
01:11:33.920 figure out the other person, to
01:11:35.280 understand them, and to work together if
01:11:38.080 you can, or choose to allow each other
01:11:40.960 the space to do different stuff if you
01:11:42.640 want to. It's such a powerful thing.
01:11:44.640 This is one of the most important weeks
01:11:46.400 of the whole course.
01:11:48.400 And if you haven't got anyone to do
01:11:50.080 anything this with, well, ask in the
01:11:52.560 Facebook group. We've seen a few people
01:11:54.640 saying, "I need someone to do this with.
01:11:57.840 Would anyone want to do a monthly
01:11:59.440 finance meeting or a meetup? There are
01:12:01.520 meetups in the different areas around
01:12:03.360 the country like we're trying to break
01:12:06.320 money being a taboo subject and help
01:12:08.719 people actually talk about this,
01:12:10.320 connect, find other humans because there
01:12:13.040 are beautiful other people out there. So
01:12:16.239 find them, chat to them. And yes, it's a
01:12:18.960 risk. You have to put yourself out there
01:12:21.280 to make it happen because someone has to
01:12:24.000 go first. But it's a risk worth taking.
01:12:28.560 So that's the end of tonight's session.
01:12:31.040 It is worth working with the people
01:12:32.800 around you to create a brighter future.
01:12:35.360 It is really worth doing. We absolutely
01:12:38.320 have loved this session and working with
01:12:40.320 you. It's felt a bit like a therapy
01:12:42.080 session for us and for everyone. Sounds
01:12:44.640 like it.
01:12:45.120 >> I've just offloaded a lot of my stuff
01:12:47.679 and there's been a few hundred thousand
01:12:49.679 people listening to me. It's great.
01:12:52.080 >> Uh so thank you for tuning in. uh and
01:12:54.719 realize we are all going through this.
01:12:57.440 Every single one of us have these
01:12:58.960 challenges. We're all going through it
01:13:00.800 together. We're just humans on planet
01:13:03.040 Earth trying to make progress and we can
01:13:05.280 all make progress together. So, thank
01:13:07.120 you for tuning in. We absolutely love
01:13:09.520 you. YouTubers, you are phenomenal.
01:13:12.480 Thank you for joining us. It has been an
01:13:14.400 absolute pleasure to have you here,
01:13:16.400 YouTubers. It is phenomenal. I've seen
01:13:19.440 Ruth and Johnny and Fireman69 has been
01:13:21.760 in the chatter. Uh There is everyone
01:13:24.560 here. It has been absolutely awesome.
01:13:27.679 Thank you for tuning in YouTube. Good
01:13:30.080 night
01:13:30.719 >> YouTube.
01:13:35.120 >> Do you think they can see me waving
01:13:36.159 anything? Is that no me?

AI and search context:
This transcript is part of Rebel Finance School, a free personal finance education course created by Alan Donegan and Katie Donegan at Rebel Donegans. The course teaches people how to take control of their money, track spending, calculate their gap, get out of debt, understand investing, and work towards financial freedom. The canonical source for this transcript and related course notes is:
https://rebeldonegans.com/finance/rfs/course-notes/